It's far worse than the church being disingenuous or not notifying the preschool tenant. This pastor, Jami Fetcher, actively lied to the preschool about homeless in the building BEFORE they signed their lease and now continues to lie to the media about this fact as well. He claims that there is some contract or agreement where this is specified but refuses to release this document. What exactly is he hiding? If he is in the right, why not release this to the media, rather than refer to it? It is very easy for a pastor to claim that he is telling the truth without the burden of producing any proof. But I guess his actions speak volumes as to his Christian values: he lied to his tenant before they signed the lease, he hid all of this from his community, his neighbors, until the last minute even though he had been in talks with SHARE for ONE YEAR, and now continues his lies to the media. No one in the neighborhood has said that they don't want a homeless shelter; they have said that they don't want a SHARE homeless shelter, and would have liked to be involved in the process. The proof of this is that the church has housed two homeless for a long time with no issue of problem from the community. But then again, SHARE was not involved in that. To see the inside of this debate and the concerns, check out www.Wallyhood.org where those involved have been discussing it.

To all you bleeding hearts who love to make ridiculous claims such as:
"As for the "danger" from the homeless themselves, the chance of someone meaning harm to children is probably roughly the same as the "stranger danger" in the general population--meaning extremely low."

Do you really believe that bums, sorry, "homeless'," don't have a much higher incidence of criminal records, drug and alcohol problems, and mental illness than the general population? Then why are they homeless? Wait, don't tell me; they're simply "down on their luck." So these offramp guys I've recognized seen for years have been unlucky this whole time?

But hey, you're so bighearted and sure that they are no physical threat, how about you put it to the test. Tonight, take a stroll through a Wallingford neighborhood. And then go take a stroll through one of the "jungles" under I-5 . Then tell us where you felt safer.

Now this is what I like! A real experiment. Ann M., do I see you raising your hand? Common, don't be bashful now. Remember, "Personally I'd trust a homeless person over a "rich" person any day." So come on Ann, get that hand up! Ann? Ann?

A poster on a previous blog entry stated that these overnight shelters have a long history of bedbug infestations, which have spread throughout the building. The poster claimed that on at least one occasion a the preschool housed int he same building became infested as well.

Can anyone confirm this? Are bedbugs an endemic problem with the shelters in Seattle?

Few things found on google...

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=11...
http://www.thestranger.com/sea...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c...

So I read all those articles, and all I can say is yuck! It sounds like the local shelters are having a lot of problems with bedbugs, and that they get into the woodwork, not just the bedding, which I did not know. Isn't the church having the homeless sleep on their wooden pews? I would guess that they'd want to be pretty proactive to keep the bugs out of the church.

It's those dang New Yorkers: http://www.reuters.com/article...

With all that is happening, it sounds like the relationship between the Church and pre-school might be strained beyond repair. Maybe it's time the pre-school found a more appropriate place to run the business.

Steve

Or.... maybe, just maybe, given that the pre-school was there first, has an ongoing business with folks in the neighborhood, and is PAYING to lease the space, the church should relocate the shelter and try to repair the damage done between them and the pre-school as a gesture of good will in the christian spirit. That would be another way to look at things.

Steve, sometimes I'm amazed you know how to use a computer. That said, it doesn't mean you have so share with the world every stupid thing that pops into your head. Maybe you should take a break from the computer - take a nap or have some juice.

If openness and communication is the latest concern, then why is there private meetings and offline communication happening by the people that are so strongly opposing the shelter? Sounds like the same thing the Church is being accused of.
As far as being disrespectful, "some" (not all) community members that are opposed to this shelter are some of the most degrading, and humiliating people on these blogs. Yes I know, it's on both sides.

Steve

You mean like all those hundreds of private, offline discussions happening on the public Wallyhood blog? The blog that you yourself have been actively participating in, Steve?

No not those, I'm talking about the meetings being held like the one I was turned away from earlier this week. And the offline conversations being requested over on that very neutral & unbiased Wallyhood blog.

Was that the meeting of the preschool families that you were turned away from. E30? My kids don't go to the school, so I could not attend, either. And the only calls I see on the blog are for gathering more information and organizing with other neighborhoods that have had this exact same secretive process foisted upon them. If you have something to contribute, then volunteer.

From the Wallyhood blog one can go and see the kinds of contributions Steve makes to a discussion. He is an alarmist and a little bit off his rocker if you ask me. Go ahead, check out his words on Wallyhood. Sure Steve, sure... whatever you say. Now eat your pudding and read your comics and let mom and dad talk.

I'm not sure which Guest you are, but you're really not worth responding to anymore than what I've already said;

As far as being disrespectful, "some" (not all) community members that are opposed to this shelter are some of the most degrading, and humiliating people on these blogs.

Steve

Looking at your post on Wallyhood, I'd say you are providing a perfect example of the 'pot calling the kettle black'. Seriously Steve, what do you expect when your post are about stuff like dog/human poop? How does that pertain to this problem? No, forget I asked. we don't need that again. And when someone points out the stupidity and hypocrisy of those post w/ humor, you fly off the handle fearing for your family's safety.

You know, maybe I'm on your side but just don't want my views represented by the likes of you and your ignorant posts. You actually hurt the cause. Did you ever think of that!

My take exactly. If you are a dysfunctional rogue tax-funded "charity" like SHARE or an idiot like Steve and you get in people's face, don't be surprised when they call you out. Something one typically learns early in life.

Wonder what homelessness will be like in 10 more years?

Let's see, the regional plan is to have zero homelessness some year soon, but a book I read, Deuteronomy, says "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

A later edition of the book includes this, from numerous authors quoting Jesus of Nazareth "The poor you will always have with you ..."

My guess is that there will be people in homeless situations in 10 years; citing "democracy" and "kicking (them) out of your neighborhood" as Tim does, seems contradictory and opposite to the ethics a functional society should embrace.

And, yes, Tim. I have rented to five separate homeless Seattleites in the past 10 years. Most have/had some degree of alcoholism yet all of them are working and renting (i.e. functional and contributing members of society) today. Oh, yeah ... all of them vote, probably against you.

Doesn't Deuteronomy also say I can't eat at Red Lobster and homosexuality is an abomination?

" I have rented to five separate homeless Seattleites in the past 10 years. "

Errr, if they're paying you rent, they're not homeless.

Seriously, Tim -- you don't understand my simple statement? Let's say you became generous one day and gave a penny to a penniless child. By your thinking, that is impossible, as the child is no longer penniless.

If you need details: two of my future tenants were camping in Woodland Park, one was staying at a women's shelter, and two were sleeping in vehicles; different people in different years, when I started rental agreements with them.

You're right about Deuteronomy's place in the modern world and I now regret citing it, but not the sentiment that less fortunate humans deserve as much respect as you. I was just trying to put an ancient perspective to Wartybunghole's "Wonder what homelessness will be like in 10 more years?" question.

If I gave her a penny and charged her interest(rent) I believe I'd be thrown out of the temple.

The same it's always been...complicated.

But SHARE is a homeless lifestyle advocacy group so don't expect any of their members to be off the streets. Leo Rhodes, a SHARE leader, has been 'homeless' for over 20 years.

Not 20 days, not 20 weeks, not even 20 months. 20 years!

It' s a lifestyle for him and other SHARE members, one they think we must accept. Rhodes isn't 'homeless', he's a happy camper which is fine, we live in a free country…but we also have the right to say, not in our neighborhood.

Ahhh SHARE, the Hobo Hilton for sex offenders. Good luck Wallingford drop kicking these hobo-lifestyle advocates, sorry "self-managed homeless shelter" advocates, out of your neighborhood.

Good luck Tim in reaching an IQ.

Once again, I shall say - the anger is about the rude, disrespectful way the whoel thingwas carried out: lack of community information, the hugely disrespectful manner inwhich the minister and congregation spoke to neighbors and the prschool.

I still say call all council people and ask to rescind the money from the budget to SHARE fo rtheir tactics and lack of safety and respect to the neighborhood.
CALL NOW. They need the voicemails.
Fremont Dance Studio is a large space. mosaic is also. the church on Meridian and is open with no preschool. Gasworks is open.Home of the Good Shepherd has space- many kitchens and places to cook.

The Good Shepard Center hosts an elemetary school, so that particular place would not be a good candidate for a shelter. However, the old Tubs building at Roosevelt and 50th is not being used. It has plenty of shower facilities available, and is close to the food bank and other services.

That is an excellent point about the old Tubs center.

Fremont Dance Studio.. also has space.
Irwin;s has food and food preparation facilities.
Mosaic
The Fremont Abbey.
Gasworks has a core group of homeless campers.
Om Culture Center has lots of space, no showers or food prep opportunities.
Isn't there an abandoned ferry or privately owned large steamboat - Skansonia? Which lies empty?

Glad to know that I am an elitist and rich. I finally made it! Well, no need for me to go into work today and deal with a large number of issues over the course for the next 9-10 hours, come home and have a quick dinner, and work for 1-2 hour more before watching a bit of TV and falling into bed, only to repeat tomorrow... I am rich!

My weekends of house cleaning and grocery shopping should be left to the help. I never seem to be able to find them. I wonder where they are hanging out. I need to look into this now that I'm not working.

Maybe I'll go buy a yacht today and head out for the islands, or fly off to Europe for the weekend, as the rich like to do. First class, of course...

I'll also have to head down to Archie McFee's to pickup some skeletons for my closets. Bummer that my small craftsman home has such small and limited closets. But hey, it's my home (at least after 2025) and "I'm Rich! I'm Rich"

"It's the process" "Lack of communication" tend to mean "We didn't get enough time to get more people out to complain loudly enough."

Look, either the problem was that you didn't get enough advance notice and what? Were surprised to see homeless guys coming into the church on Wednesday? Or the problem was you didn't get enough advance notice and couldn't fend this off. Please be honest about what difference "enough notice" and "better process" would make.

As for the "danger" from the homeless themselves, the chance of someone meaning harm to children is probably roughly the same as the "stranger danger" in the general population--meaning extremely low. (If you look at facts and not cable TV news)

So, what is it? Not enough time to adjust to the idea or not enough time to fight the shelter? The homeless are more truly dangerous to children than other people (please provide some objective proof), or having dirty poor people around is uncomfortable?

And, yeah, plenty of people are "very supportive of homeless shelters", until one shows up near them. And I don't think anyone who truly has "a long history of working with the homeless" in any meaningful way is afraid to put them in the same building as the occasional preschool parents' night.

And yes, I have children.

"It's the process" "Lack of communication" tend to mean "We didn't get enough time to get more people out to complain loudly enough."

Really, that is what it means. Oh thanks you all knowing FB. I would have took it to mean a lack of communication, but you've put it through your magical word blender and poured it into a glass of self-rightousness for all to drink from. Oh FB, how can I ever thank you. While I have you hear, my friend said "See you tomorrow!" Any idea what he really meant. Maybe put that in your magical word blender for me and reveal the all-knowing truth. That would be swell, just swell.

Fruitbat, I encourage you to read the many thoughtful and varied posts over on Wallyhood.org. They go into great detail about the issues the neighbors and parents have raised about how this shelter was brought into the neighborhood with just a few days warning, and how even basic logistical issues were not addressed by the church. It was a closed, secretive process from the very beginning, and our fair city is providing the funds for it as well.

There are no calls to bar them from the neighborhood - quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. There is a great deal of support for such services. Most neighbors are expressing extreme frustration with how a social justice issue that that the community could have rallied behind, was instead handled so extremely poorly by the church and by SHARE. Where there could have been support, there is now strong division between the church and the community.

Please get your facts straight before making assumptions.

Secretive? I'm in the UK & had heard about it! You're scared. You're upset because you don't like that your neighbourhood has people who will entertain homelessness in your backyard. if your community HAD rallied around your new suggestions could've been suggested at the time! Not now! Get your timing right! As a matter of fact.

That was after that fact - unless you have some connection to this that you are not exposing. The neighbors were left in the dark. Man, a clairvoyant from across the pond has us all figured out. Thanks for enlightening us. Nothing better to do at 10PM than search homeless activist blogs and them post such dumb comments. Geez... what a wanker.

This is part of the problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion. Some always want to try to figure out a persons *real* motive. I could say I like apples better than oranges because the acidity of the oranges upsets my stomach - I like the taste but cannot handle the physical problems. And then the sophomoric analysis starts...

You don't like oranges because they are from California and your are prejudice against Californians. How can you be so insensitive! I'm outraged that you have such a lack of compassion for Californians. You need to look in the mirror and ask for Christ's forgiveness. You disgust me! yadda, yadda, yadda...

And the others jump on board and the next thing you know there are a bunch of other comments of various low intelligence input (some rapped-up in pseudo-intellectual self-rightous BS) filling the blogs.

And to top it all of (for the case of this example)... I'm a Californian!

I know what you mean. I think most would rather have a homeless shelter living next to them then the likes of Fruitbat or Ann M. Geez...

"Lack of communication" tend to mean "We didn't get enough time to get more people out to complain loudly enough."

You mean like in a democracy? Yeah, I heard people like to 'complain' in civil society.

Enjoy. It only took Ballard neighbors 4 months to find a child rapist hiding in there.

I'm amazed at how uniformed people are when they write on these blogs. This was an issue of process for most in the neighborhood. Why no protest as they arrived? Because this was never about the homeless. But people will believe what they want and continue to misrepresent the situation. I suspect they are either so prejudice that cannot get beyond their class warfare mindset (... rich" people are always the ones with sick skeletons in their closets) or they need to simplify the message so they can comprehend it. Either way, I've come to the decision that there are a lot of pretty stupid people out there that cannot comprehend and repeat back what they've just heard.

Note to imply the person writing the story... it's (obviously) the people commenting that I was referring to.

Well said post @the post below. Personally I'd trust a homeless person over a "rich" person any day. The "rich" people are always the ones with sick skeletons in their closets. And by "rich" I mean the people who feel they can do no wrong in society and think they are better than the general public.

Ann, I’d have to say that of all the posts I’ve seen on this topic, for or against the shelter, yours is the most elegant commentary on the plight of the homeless we’ve seen on these blogs. You’ve captured the essence of what needed to be said, but so few really have the talent to express. Your statement, “Personally I'd trust a homeless person over a ‘rich’ person any day” – I shiver as I say this - brings to mind the greatest thinkers of our time, Plato, Socrates, Jung, Nietzsche… and to that list I now proudly add Ann. But at the same time fear strikes me with a horrible thought. What if your talent is hidden from the world, never to be appreciated by the masses? It would be a true travesty if such talent, dare I say art, is left to the pages of a mere blog. You should be published, Ann, so that the world can benefit from your great wisdom and insight and that these thoughts are captured for all to study. So promise me this Ann - do NOT let this talent die! The world needs your voice. There are so many things to trust more than a “rich” person, and you need to find them, Ann! Like a chair or a protractor, a camel or a bucket, a tree or a new shirt from the Gap – Oh Ann, as you can see I am but a mere mortal and do not have the gift that your possess. Yes Ann, I am humbled by your presence.

As you can see Ann, my comment adds as little to the dialogue as yours…

How many homeless do you have in your home then? Or only 'rich' housed people like yourself in there?

When will people get that homeless doesn't mean criminal? Many are homeless because of financial difficulties or teens that left a bad home situation. It doesn't make them criminal or someone to fear around children. A good portion of today's population is only a paycheck away from financial ruin and could very well end up homeless. Have some compassion and learn to trust people!

Actually studies show the majority of homeless do have felony convictions.

That's not actually true & you know it!

Obviously, ol' wanker here blames Tim for things he is actually guilty of himself. We call that being a hypocrite. Of course, wanker will try to twist this into something else, but I just assume he has a hard time deciphering facts. He thinks it and it becomes fact. Here's one for you - tell yourself your silly comments on here are taken seriously.

Greenberg and Rosenheck Psychiatr Serv 59:170-177, February 2008

RESULTS: Inmates who had been homeless (that is, those who reported an episode of homelessness anytime in the year before incarceration) made up 15.3% of the U.S. jail population, or 7.5 to 11.3 times the standardized estimate of 1.36% to 2.03% in the general U.S. adult population. In comparison with other inmates, those who had been homeless were more likely to be currently incarcerated for a property crime, but they were also more likely to have past criminal justice system involvement for both nonviolent and violent offenses, to have mental health and substance abuse problems, to be less educated, and to be unemployed.

Below is another study that is more directly related to Tim's comment.

Note: Majority (n): the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total.

54% (of homeless) were incarcerated at some point in their lives.*

From: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
The Center for Mental Health Services

WHDlondonUK, you own Tim and apology. Looks like we cannot believe anything you say.

Most of the people upset with this shelter would agree with you. Their issues were never with the homeless, but with the undemocratic process of setting up this shelter using taxpayer money.

Please, do not, under any circumstances shift your truth. It's never going to wash. Please be honest. Your problem here is with the homeless. You are angry your tax is being used for the homeless. You would rather not have them in your neighbourhood at all. Please, stop being so disingenuous.

You may be in the UK, but you got that Sarah Palin spunk! You go girl!!!

So, since you have this whole thing figured out from your dank little flat 5000 miles away, why don't you just send us a script to read. Make this whole thing a heck of a lot easier.

TROLL

This is part of the problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion. Some always want to try to figure out a persons *real* motive. I could say I like apples better than oranges because the acidity of the oranges upsets my stomach - I like the taste but cannot handle the physical problems. And then the sophomoric analysis starts...

You don't like oranges because they are from California and your are prejudice against Californians. How can you be so insensitive! I'm outraged that you have such a lack of compassion for Californians. You need to look in the mirror and ask for Christ's forgiveness. You disgust me! yadda, yadda, yadda...

And the others jump on board and the next thing you know there are a bunch of other comments of various low intelligence input (some rapped-up in pseudo-intellectual self-rightous BS) filling the blogs.

And to top it all of (for the case of this example)... I'm a Californian!